[QUOTE=Michael Shaw] The reason why is problems with college kids partying to hardy with it. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, Everclear is only toxic if you drink it!
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| grain alc. v denatured alc. http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7208 |
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| Author: | bob J [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:41 am ] |
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When directions say use denatured alcohol, can you always use grain? Why or why not, please. |
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:51 am ] |
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Hey Bob: I use grain for FP, and denatured for cleaning up after wash coats of shellac. Not sure about the interchangability. -Mark |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:01 am ] |
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good point Mark. Bob I would think in any application we would use it for you would be ok. but I am not prepaired to say that for any use of DA |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:20 am ] |
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Grain is okay if it's the pure stuff, like Everclear (which we can't get in Michigan, so we have to use the more toxic stuff--go figure). |
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| Author: | John Elshaw [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:58 am ] |
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Does the grain alcohol evaporate as quick as denatured alcohol when french polishing? I have no idea if there is a difference between the two, but if they both evaporate as quick, I don't see why you couldn't use either. Cheers! John |
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| Author: | Wayne Clark [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:33 am ] |
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Grain alcohol and denatured alcohol are both ethanol. The grain alcohol you can buy in a liquor stoe is 190 proof or 95% pure. The other 5% is water. Denatured alcohol is ethanol with something nasty added to keep people from drinking it. The nasty stuff is usually something toxic like methanol. Wear gloves if you use it. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:40 am ] |
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I always tell folks to ditch the denatured and go strictly with grain alcohol if you can get it. The only other piece of information I have is from a friend who knew an old-timer furniture guy in the Boston area, who claims that methanol is better for french polish than ethanol, even though it's toxic. I'm not sure why he said this, just that he did. Others will have oposing opinions to his. I say go with what's safe to use. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:18 am ] |
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Denatured is toxic ( opinions vary about the amount we use not being that harmful) It can also dissolve a bit of wax if your flakes are of the waxed variety. And thirdly, it doesn't evaporate as quickly as the grain stuff. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:32 am ] |
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I've used the Lee Valley shellac thinner to FP with great success. Anybody know the exact composition of that stuff? Worked very well... |
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| Author: | Michael Shaw [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:00 am ] |
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[QUOTE=CarltonM] Grain is okay if it's the pure stuff, like Everclear (which we can't get in Michigan, so we have to use the more toxic stuff--go figure).[/QUOTE] We can't get it in Pennsylvania anymore unless you special order it thru the Pennsylvania liquor control board. Or the P.L.C.B for short. It will take upto a month for the order to go thru. So I go over the bridge to new Jersey for it. Just easier and faster.The reason why is problems with college kids partying to hardy with it. By the way I work at the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:04 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Michael Shaw] The reason why is problems with college kids partying to hardy with it. [/QUOTE] Yeah, Everclear is only toxic if you drink it!
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| Author: | Michael Shaw [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:45 pm ] |
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No this stuff is stronger. It is 190 proof which is 90% alcohol and 10% water. It is clear with no flavor. I have been dumb enough to take a swig in my young crazy day's. Burns like hell. We used to take a 1 litre bottle of this mix it with two gallons of juice and add pieces of fruit. We called it jungle juice. It was more then enough to get 10 to 15 people drunk. I have sampled real moonshine and it is nothing like this stuff. Dont get me wrong shine is strong but not as strong as pure grain alcohol. 
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| Author: | D.L.Huskey [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:52 pm ] |
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Hey Hesh, Now don't be gittin any ideas 
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| Author: | Keith M [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:56 pm ] |
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Quality can be tested in the shop. Well, sort of. Put a drop of each alcohol type on a super clean piece of glass. Let each drop evaporate then look at the glass in angled surface light. The one with the least ring of solids is the best. |
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| Author: | Michael Shaw [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:46 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=D.L.Huskey] Hey Hesh, Now don't be gittin any ideas [/QUOTE]
Jungle Juice party at Hesh's this weekend. |
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| Author: | bob J [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:40 pm ] |
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Purple Passion Party!! Thanks for the info guys. |
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| Author: | arvey [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:19 am ] |
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I have used Denatured, but don't lik the smeall. I use either Ethenol bought (you can get it in Ontario with a Perscription from your Doctor) or stuff I make (Frezer distilling is legal here even if the cops don't like you doing it, and I have also used Methenol with gloves. All work for me. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:38 am ] |
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DA's content is different from manufacture to manufacture but as stated above the basic is an ethanol base with methanol and toxins added to keep it non consumable. Originally created to conform to prohibition but keep alive today so that you can buy it over the counter in your hardware store. PGA or DA either work fine for French polishing. If you don't want toxins in you shop then go with PGA if you want to be able to buy it easy at 10:pm or on Sundays then you pretty much stuck with DA. |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:51 am ] |
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I was told DA will get into your body and will eventually cause blindness...I have enough problems without being blind...I stay away from DA. Also, I found just the opposite of Robbie...DA seemed to evaporate faster to me than Grain. But not enough for me to take the risk. I am already feeling the results of not wearing dust protection as I should. I also think I am partially retarded from the Nitro used without protection...now I always, always, use a mask ! Why take the risk? |
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| Author: | arvey [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:25 am ] |
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You can't buy denatured Alcohol anywhere around where I live so it is either ethenol or Methenol. I have heard it argued that Methenol works better in french polishing and my experience seems to support this. Of course methenol is toxic so you want to be careful, gloves etc, But considering this is what we burn in our alcohol stoves where we are in an enclosed non ventilated space (ussually on a boat or small cabin or in a tent, I don't wory too much. I know others will disagree and not be willing to even chance the 5% Methenol used to denature ethenol. I have tried Pharmesuducal (sp) ethenol (rubbing) which is 95% ethenol and then has Camphor and something else added to it. It is cheap and can be bought at the drug store but I found something used to denature this effects the french polishing, gives a rough surface that isn't very hard. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:11 am ] |
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I wish I had saved the link, but once upon a time I found a site that was selling everclear via mail order. It didn't appear to have any restricitions on where it could mail it as long as it was in the US. Does anyone know of a site selling this stuff. I don't FP, but I mix plenty of shellac. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:13 am ] |
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Gotta love Google. It ain't cheap though. http://www.beerliquors.com/liquors/grain.htm |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:30 am ] |
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I think if you read the small print at those mail-order sites, they do have restrictions on to which states they can ship. I have checked in the past, and Michigan was one of them. |
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